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	<title>Comments for Cuchlann</title>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by Cuchlann</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1670</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuchlann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 17:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1670</guid>
		<description>MLHP: I think we&#039;re clear now. : D I agree with most of that, actually. Academics are trying to change the habits of writing required of, well, academics, but there&#039;s still resistance to nice, clear prose. For instance, contractions are traditionally forbidden, which is stupid. It&#039;s something I run into a lot -- a few teachers have commended my casual style while insisting I should stop using contractions.

As for the &quot;obfuscation&quot; of ideas, some people just can&#039;t write, or they assume readers are as totally familiar with X as they are. It happens less now than formerly: if you want an adventure, read some really old criticism, from the 50s, say. It&#039;s terrible, mostly. The New Critics are often described as ignoring the biography of the poet -- really, they just didn&#039;t ever mention it in their writing because they assumed everyone knew the biography as well as they did. : p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MLHP: I think we&#8217;re clear now. : D I agree with most of that, actually. Academics are trying to change the habits of writing required of, well, academics, but there&#8217;s still resistance to nice, clear prose. For instance, contractions are traditionally forbidden, which is stupid. It&#8217;s something I run into a lot &#8212; a few teachers have commended my casual style while insisting I should stop using contractions.</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;obfuscation&#8221; of ideas, some people just can&#8217;t write, or they assume readers are as totally familiar with X as they are. It happens less now than formerly: if you want an adventure, read some really old criticism, from the 50s, say. It&#8217;s terrible, mostly. The New Critics are often described as ignoring the biography of the poet &#8212; really, they just didn&#8217;t ever mention it in their writing because they assumed everyone knew the biography as well as they did. : p</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by Michael is Low on Hit Points</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael is Low on Hit Points</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1668</guid>
		<description>I think I get what you&#039;re going at now.  But it&#039;s not really anti-academic here; it&#039;s anti-obfuscation, or at least that is what X will say.  If the academic is simply writing like your average fan, then X isn&#039;t saying he &quot;made it up&quot; because as far as X knows, he&#039;s simply dealing with another fan.  But when certain terminology and certain prose structure come into play, then the &quot;academic&quot; distinction gets made -- am I not right here?  Is it not then the lack of (perceived) clarity that X is really railing against, even if his charges of &quot;bullshit&quot; are (perceived to be) aimed at the meaning?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I get what you&#8217;re going at now.  But it&#8217;s not really anti-academic here; it&#8217;s anti-obfuscation, or at least that is what X will say.  If the academic is simply writing like your average fan, then X isn&#8217;t saying he &#8220;made it up&#8221; because as far as X knows, he&#8217;s simply dealing with another fan.  But when certain terminology and certain prose structure come into play, then the &#8220;academic&#8221; distinction gets made &#8212; am I not right here?  Is it not then the lack of (perceived) clarity that X is really railing against, even if his charges of &#8220;bullshit&#8221; are (perceived to be) aimed at the meaning?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by Cuchlann</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuchlann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1667</guid>
		<description>@MLHP: Still not quite. Let me go back a little further -- I think there&#039;s an assumption among fans that academics aren&#039;t also fans, which is wrong. So if a fan makes an argument [X] doesn&#039;t like, [X] bitches, maybe trolls, whatever, but there&#039;s always the certainty that what the fan said is what the fan thought. If [X] reads an academic&#039;s argument and doesn&#039;t like it, often enough [X] talks as though the academic simply started making up complete bullshit -- as though the fan and the academic were doing two different things. Which they&#039;re not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MLHP: Still not quite. Let me go back a little further &#8212; I think there&#8217;s an assumption among fans that academics aren&#8217;t also fans, which is wrong. So if a fan makes an argument [X] doesn&#8217;t like, [X] bitches, maybe trolls, whatever, but there&#8217;s always the certainty that what the fan said is what the fan thought. If [X] reads an academic&#8217;s argument and doesn&#8217;t like it, often enough [X] talks as though the academic simply started making up complete bullshit &#8212; as though the fan and the academic were doing two different things. Which they&#8217;re not.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by Michael is Low on Hit Points</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1666</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael is Low on Hit Points</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1666</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not that I&#039;m against theory per se; canon can take quite a while to parse through.  I just think that you can&#039;t throw away canon completely for theory standing on its own.  You really need both (I&#039;m sure you agree with this too).  As for adding to canon, I don&#039;t really need to wait for academia&#039;s ok to add in the newer stuff.  Modern elements (ie, internet) have decentralized the &quot;official&quot; canon, if you will.  I just wanted to point out that anyone that wants to criticize fiction literature would do well to add Ulysses alongside whatever structuralist / poststructuralist works he&#039;s naturally got stacked up.  (if I mischaracterized in that last sentence, it&#039;s because all I&#039;ve read is fiction, and little criticism on said fiction, and my academia major was computer science).

So, what you were saying in your postscript was more along the lines of someone responding to &quot;hard work&quot; with a simple &quot;negative quip&quot;, or was it anger at the more general disdain for academics that many people display?  For the former, hard work does not always equate good work, and sometimes the short and flagrant response is about all that&#039;s truly warranted (that sounds mean, but reality is often cruel).  For the latter, I personally can understand the majority&#039;s frustration with certain academics, though writing off all academics is a bit too much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not that I&#8217;m against theory per se; canon can take quite a while to parse through.  I just think that you can&#8217;t throw away canon completely for theory standing on its own.  You really need both (I&#8217;m sure you agree with this too).  As for adding to canon, I don&#8217;t really need to wait for academia&#8217;s ok to add in the newer stuff.  Modern elements (ie, internet) have decentralized the &#8220;official&#8221; canon, if you will.  I just wanted to point out that anyone that wants to criticize fiction literature would do well to add Ulysses alongside whatever structuralist / poststructuralist works he&#8217;s naturally got stacked up.  (if I mischaracterized in that last sentence, it&#8217;s because all I&#8217;ve read is fiction, and little criticism on said fiction, and my academia major was computer science).</p>
<p>So, what you were saying in your postscript was more along the lines of someone responding to &#8220;hard work&#8221; with a simple &#8220;negative quip&#8221;, or was it anger at the more general disdain for academics that many people display?  For the former, hard work does not always equate good work, and sometimes the short and flagrant response is about all that&#8217;s truly warranted (that sounds mean, but reality is often cruel).  For the latter, I personally can understand the majority&#8217;s frustration with certain academics, though writing off all academics is a bit too much.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by Cuchlann</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1663</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuchlann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 21:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1663</guid>
		<description>@ghostlightning: I suppose they do indeed spark discussion. I still fee that, in the end, they&#039;re too prescriptive. That&#039;s why, to this day, if you wanna talk about a comic, a movie, or a tv show, in academia, you&#039;re still doing &quot;pop culture studies.&quot; As opposed to what? Well, literature. But what is literature? It&#039;s a popular entertainment as well. You know, with the entertaining and all. So it leads to too many lines drawn in the sand.

@jp: Well, you&#039;re right, but modified Freudianism is perfectly acceptable in Japanese studies -- that is, in so far as you can assume that Japanese people have unconsciousnesses (however you want to define that), and that you can assume Japanese people have sex. So it depends on how it&#039;s applied. (Oh, also, late thought: post-WWII Japan is likely just as Freudian as anything else, as they absorbed the concepts along with the adaptation of western media we know happened, as that&#039;s where anime comes from).

And my impression is that the Napier thing is about audience construction, and Napier&#039;s audience is necessarily western anyway, so even unaltered Freud would be acceptable in that case. Not that I think the actual claim is right -- but it&#039;s Napier&#039;s to make.

And you&#039;re certainly right that both sides see the bad things and assume the whole [other side&#039;s pursuit] is worthless.

@MLHP: You do have a point, but I feel that -- as I said to GL -- canons are too restrictive and prescriptive. So I think the benefits are outweighed by the dangers. But that&#039;s the ideal version of how a canon is supposed to work, certainly. But then, if that&#039;s the case, why have some schools of thought (literature mostly, though film critics are beginning to do this I think) refused to add anything to the canon after the 50s-60s (British and American, that is)? Theory has the benefit of training one to lay out the parts of a thing and then figure out how meaning works -- in whichever way one chooses. Just because someone reads Freud, they&#039;re not honor-bound to do Freudian readings forever -- indeed, if that happened, people would lose interest pretty quickly. A good reading is always grounded in the text -- that&#039;s another misconception, that theory encourages a person to ignore the text. If one does that and submits it to a journal, for instance, one&#039;s just going to get rejected. There&#039;s theory out there that&#039;s not about texts, but it doesn&#039;t purport to be readings of things.

Also, you have a point in the fissure in criticism, but that wasn&#039;t actually what I meant. Let me try to clarify: I was complaining more about serious fans who talk disparagingly about the conclusions of academics, speaking as though the academic must just be making things up to get noticed. Does that happen? Probably. But most often an academic is just a fan with some very specific training -- some of it bad, just as some super-fan training is bad -- relating what he or she thought of when he or she read/watched/listened to something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ghostlightning: I suppose they do indeed spark discussion. I still fee that, in the end, they&#8217;re too prescriptive. That&#8217;s why, to this day, if you wanna talk about a comic, a movie, or a tv show, in academia, you&#8217;re still doing &#8220;pop culture studies.&#8221; As opposed to what? Well, literature. But what is literature? It&#8217;s a popular entertainment as well. You know, with the entertaining and all. So it leads to too many lines drawn in the sand.</p>
<p>@jp: Well, you&#8217;re right, but modified Freudianism is perfectly acceptable in Japanese studies &#8212; that is, in so far as you can assume that Japanese people have unconsciousnesses (however you want to define that), and that you can assume Japanese people have sex. So it depends on how it&#8217;s applied. (Oh, also, late thought: post-WWII Japan is likely just as Freudian as anything else, as they absorbed the concepts along with the adaptation of western media we know happened, as that&#8217;s where anime comes from).</p>
<p>And my impression is that the Napier thing is about audience construction, and Napier&#8217;s audience is necessarily western anyway, so even unaltered Freud would be acceptable in that case. Not that I think the actual claim is right &#8212; but it&#8217;s Napier&#8217;s to make.</p>
<p>And you&#8217;re certainly right that both sides see the bad things and assume the whole [other side's pursuit] is worthless.</p>
<p>@MLHP: You do have a point, but I feel that &#8212; as I said to GL &#8212; canons are too restrictive and prescriptive. So I think the benefits are outweighed by the dangers. But that&#8217;s the ideal version of how a canon is supposed to work, certainly. But then, if that&#8217;s the case, why have some schools of thought (literature mostly, though film critics are beginning to do this I think) refused to add anything to the canon after the 50s-60s (British and American, that is)? Theory has the benefit of training one to lay out the parts of a thing and then figure out how meaning works &#8212; in whichever way one chooses. Just because someone reads Freud, they&#8217;re not honor-bound to do Freudian readings forever &#8212; indeed, if that happened, people would lose interest pretty quickly. A good reading is always grounded in the text &#8212; that&#8217;s another misconception, that theory encourages a person to ignore the text. If one does that and submits it to a journal, for instance, one&#8217;s just going to get rejected. There&#8217;s theory out there that&#8217;s not about texts, but it doesn&#8217;t purport to be readings of things.</p>
<p>Also, you have a point in the fissure in criticism, but that wasn&#8217;t actually what I meant. Let me try to clarify: I was complaining more about serious fans who talk disparagingly about the conclusions of academics, speaking as though the academic must just be making things up to get noticed. Does that happen? Probably. But most often an academic is just a fan with some very specific training &#8212; some of it bad, just as some super-fan training is bad &#8212; relating what he or she thought of when he or she read/watched/listened to something.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by Michael is Low on Hit Points</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1661</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael is Low on Hit Points</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 17:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1661</guid>
		<description>The problem here is that without the canon and only the theory, you&#039;re a bit too far removed from the actual work you&#039;re theorizing on.  The question arises: how do you know the theory you&#039;re working with has any real basis?  Shouldn&#039;t you be reading/watching/whatever-ing the canon and developing your own theory?  Otherwise, slick talkers can push bullshit theory all they want, and the inexperienced (with said subject) will never be able to refute it on solid enough ground.  Thus postmodernism becomes an accepted philosophy in academia (I kid, I kid).

Moving onto your postscript, (it seems to me that) you&#039;re drawing on a fissure in criticism on whether the author or the reader is the key interpreter in a work&#039;s meaning.  This is a bit hard for me to comment on seeing as I&#039;m not sure what you&#039;re referencing with Akira here (nor do I wish to look it up).  But if you put the meaning in the author&#039;s hands, then these (for lack of a better word) extra-curricular readings are wrong.  If instead you put the meaning into the reader&#039;s hand, then this reader here is more than allowed to dispute whatever any other reader wants to put into the work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here is that without the canon and only the theory, you&#8217;re a bit too far removed from the actual work you&#8217;re theorizing on.  The question arises: how do you know the theory you&#8217;re working with has any real basis?  Shouldn&#8217;t you be reading/watching/whatever-ing the canon and developing your own theory?  Otherwise, slick talkers can push bullshit theory all they want, and the inexperienced (with said subject) will never be able to refute it on solid enough ground.  Thus postmodernism becomes an accepted philosophy in academia (I kid, I kid).</p>
<p>Moving onto your postscript, (it seems to me that) you&#8217;re drawing on a fissure in criticism on whether the author or the reader is the key interpreter in a work&#8217;s meaning.  This is a bit hard for me to comment on seeing as I&#8217;m not sure what you&#8217;re referencing with Akira here (nor do I wish to look it up).  But if you put the meaning in the author&#8217;s hands, then these (for lack of a better word) extra-curricular readings are wrong.  If instead you put the meaning into the reader&#8217;s hand, then this reader here is more than allowed to dispute whatever any other reader wants to put into the work.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by jpmeyer</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1660</link>
		<dc:creator>jpmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 14:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1660</guid>
		<description>Damn, no edit button.  I probably should expound more upon on #1

#1 matters more than I originally thought, now that I think about it.  I feel like if someone is going to do such an apples-to-oranges analysis as that, it shows to me some degree of some combination of lack of awareness regarding the theory itself, the culture the theory is generated from, the work the theory is being applied to, the culture the work arose out of, and the writer&#039;s own self-awareness.  Due to this unease, it becomes harder for the reader to give the writer the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are talking about when they are reading something about a topic that they themselves might understand only at best tangentially.

Interestingly, this unease showed up on both sides on during a discussion on the amrc-l listserv regarding Mechademia, where fans reading the journal would see these little loose ends in the essays that were published, while the editors would see these little loose ends in works submitted by non-academics, causing both to conclude that neither side understands what they are talking about.

(tl;dr, Sokal Affair)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, no edit button.  I probably should expound more upon on #1</p>
<p>#1 matters more than I originally thought, now that I think about it.  I feel like if someone is going to do such an apples-to-oranges analysis as that, it shows to me some degree of some combination of lack of awareness regarding the theory itself, the culture the theory is generated from, the work the theory is being applied to, the culture the work arose out of, and the writer&#8217;s own self-awareness.  Due to this unease, it becomes harder for the reader to give the writer the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are talking about when they are reading something about a topic that they themselves might understand only at best tangentially.</p>
<p>Interestingly, this unease showed up on both sides on during a discussion on the amrc-l listserv regarding Mechademia, where fans reading the journal would see these little loose ends in the essays that were published, while the editors would see these little loose ends in works submitted by non-academics, causing both to conclude that neither side understands what they are talking about.</p>
<p>(tl;dr, Sokal Affair)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by jpmeyer</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1659</link>
		<dc:creator>jpmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1659</guid>
		<description>The Napier line sets off warning bells in a lot of aca-fans because it sounds completely absurd, but it sets off warning bells for me for two different reasons:

1) It&#039;s Freud being applied in a non-Western context
2) It&#039;s Freud being applied in film theory

#1 shouldn&#039;t need any explanation, but #2 probably does.  The short explanation is that film theory spent decades with Freud and it lead to nothing but really terrible theory that was on its face ludicrous and false (GIGO, etc.) but would keep getting spun and manipulated and drawn out a little bit more to try to make it work despite what one&#039;s lying eyes were telling you, like that it was psychologically impossible for women to like movies.

But there doesn&#039;t seem to be enough criticalness about theory itself to separate the gobbledeegook from any kind of useful modes of thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Napier line sets off warning bells in a lot of aca-fans because it sounds completely absurd, but it sets off warning bells for me for two different reasons:</p>
<p>1) It&#8217;s Freud being applied in a non-Western context<br />
2) It&#8217;s Freud being applied in film theory</p>
<p>#1 shouldn&#8217;t need any explanation, but #2 probably does.  The short explanation is that film theory spent decades with Freud and it lead to nothing but really terrible theory that was on its face ludicrous and false (GIGO, etc.) but would keep getting spun and manipulated and drawn out a little bit more to try to make it work despite what one&#8217;s lying eyes were telling you, like that it was psychologically impossible for women to like movies.</p>
<p>But there doesn&#8217;t seem to be enough criticalness about theory itself to separate the gobbledeegook from any kind of useful modes of thinking.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by ghostlightning</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1658</link>
		<dc:creator>ghostlightning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 03:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1658</guid>
		<description>Good. 

I sometimes think that Canons are useful in that they inspire discussion -- at what should and shouldn&#039;t be there, when to change it, etc. In the mean time there is a dialectic of privileged and marginalized that makes for stirring drama (to me anyway).

Also, human achievement needs to be measured. The method and process for which needs to be every improving, is what I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good. </p>
<p>I sometimes think that Canons are useful in that they inspire discussion &#8212; at what should and shouldn&#8217;t be there, when to change it, etc. In the mean time there is a dialectic of privileged and marginalized that makes for stirring drama (to me anyway).</p>
<p>Also, human achievement needs to be measured. The method and process for which needs to be every improving, is what I think.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why theory? by Cuchlann</title>
		<link>http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373&#038;cpage=1#comment-1656</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuchlann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 03:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cuchlann.superfani.com/?p=373#comment-1656</guid>
		<description>Yeah, in theory. At least, most academics learn that even if they revile an idea, they still have to let it stand. 

And you&#039;re probably right about the laziness factor as well. But there are some decent souls out there who are really working at what they&#039;re doing, even if it&#039;s a blog they don&#039;t get any money for, and still they recoil from theory. So maybe it&#039;s also that there&#039;s work of a particular kind, that people believe is hard to get into? Which is also what you said, so I guess I just rephrased it? Hey, I&#039;m tired, give me a break. : D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, in theory. At least, most academics learn that even if they revile an idea, they still have to let it stand. </p>
<p>And you&#8217;re probably right about the laziness factor as well. But there are some decent souls out there who are really working at what they&#8217;re doing, even if it&#8217;s a blog they don&#8217;t get any money for, and still they recoil from theory. So maybe it&#8217;s also that there&#8217;s work of a particular kind, that people believe is hard to get into? Which is also what you said, so I guess I just rephrased it? Hey, I&#8217;m tired, give me a break. : D</p>
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